“We Did the Skills Work. Nothing Happened.” | Sarah Gretczko on The Truth About Skills Strategy

All episodes

In this in-person episode of The TechWolf Podcast, recorded live in New York City, we sit down with Sarah Gretczko, Head of Talent & Belonging at PayPal.

With 20+ years of experience in HR strategy, Sarah shares unfiltered insights on the evolution of skills-based organizations—and why focusing only on skills is a mistake.

From her time at MasterCard and JP Morgan to PayPal today, she brings stories of real transformation, failed pilots, business alignment, and the human side of tech.

Sarah shares:

Why skills are only one piece of the puzzle when understanding human potential.
What companies get wrong when jumping into skills transformations.
How a failed workforce planning project became a critical success during COVID.
Her advice for choosing the right use cases and getting business buy-in.
How to evaluate HR tech vendors without getting lost in the hype.

💡 Final Takeaway: Don't get distracted by buzzwords. Skills data is only useful if it's connected to real business problems—and implemented in a human-centric way.

Related episodes

See all

Episode 34

Aug 3, 2026

hour 42 min

“It's not a super sexy problem, but it's the foundation of everything.” | Ian Bailie, Synopsys' VP of People Strategy, on a best-of-breed skills stack

Episode 33

Jul 22, 2026

hour 51 min

“Nothing’s being asked of HR that hasn’t been asked before.” | Why the AI moment isn’t new for HR

Episode 32

Jun 25, 2026

hour 41 min

“What took us months now takes minutes.” | Cotality CHRO Kendra Angier on building a skills engine, engaging the C-suite, and her 12-24mo strategy

Episode 7

May 4, 2025

hour 52 min

listen now

Apple

Subscribe to our newsletter

Subscribe now to receive new episodes straight to your mailbox.

All podcasts

“We Did the Skills Work. Nothing Happened.” | Sarah Gretczko on The Truth About Skills Strategy

In this in-person episode of The TechWolf Podcast, recorded live in New York City, we sit down with Sarah Gretczko, Head of Talent & Belonging at PayPal.

With 20+ years of experience in HR strategy, Sarah shares unfiltered insights on the evolution of skills-based organizations—and why focusing only on skills is a mistake.

From her time at MasterCard and JP Morgan to PayPal today, she brings stories of real transformation, failed pilots, business alignment, and the human side of tech.

Sarah shares:

Why skills are only one piece of the puzzle when understanding human potential.
What companies get wrong when jumping into skills transformations.
How a failed workforce planning project became a critical success during COVID.
Her advice for choosing the right use cases and getting business buy-in.
How to evaluate HR tech vendors without getting lost in the hype.

💡 Final Takeaway: Don't get distracted by buzzwords. Skills data is only useful if it's connected to real business problems—and implemented in a human-centric way.

No items found.

Subscribe to our newsletter

Never miss an episode

Subscribe now to receive new episodes straight to your mailbox.

Related episodes

Episode 34

Aug 3, 2026

hour 42 min

“It's not a super sexy problem, but it's the foundation of everything.” | Ian Bailie, Synopsys' VP of People Strategy, on a best-of-breed skills stack

Ian Bailie has built a skills strategy twice, once at Cisco and now at Synopsys, and he's done fighting the usual battles. He explains why job architecture comes first, why he refused another portal, and why AI is the way into the conversation.

listen now

Episode 33

Jul 22, 2026

hour 51 min

“Nothing’s being asked of HR that hasn’t been asked before.” | Why the AI moment isn’t new for HR

Deloitte’s Kyle Forrest breaks down what it really takes for HR to lead workforce transformation, from zero-based work to telling people where their roles are headed. He also shares the test that separates a real AI agent from a workflow with a chat window.

listen now

Episode 32

Jun 25, 2026

hour 41 min

“What took us months now takes minutes.” | Cotality CHRO Kendra Angier on building a skills engine, engaging the C-suite, and her 12-24mo strategy

Cotality CHRO Kendra Angier killed a nine-month skills taxonomy, then rebuilt her workforce strategy around dynamic data and an 80% employee NPS. She breaks down how she won over the CFO, COO and CTO, and why she plans in 12-to-24-month windows.

listen now

Episode 31

Jun 17, 2026

hour 38 min

AstraZeneca’s 4-year Odyssey with skills intelligence | Why agility beats the SBO label

AstraZeneca’s Lara Martinez Gonzalez explains why “skills-based organization” is the wrong goal, and what four years of building talent intelligence at a legacy pharma actually taught her. A candid look at the data, the vendors, the ROI, and the one narrative trap that cost her a year.

listen now

Episode 30

May 25, 2026

hour 39 min

"Tell me about your strategy. Skills can wait." | Sandoz's Workforce Intelligence Lead on the one move that flips SWP from push to pull

Sandoz's Felipe Hessel on building a workforce intelligence function from scratch, his six-step strategic workforce planning framework, and why HR should run like a product. He also makes the case that AI automation in HR is still mostly a promise, and shows where it already saves real time.

listen now

Episode 29

Apr 29, 2026

hour 12 min

"Sellers close deals 14% faster." | Special Episode: Workday’s Josh Tarr & TechWolf CEO Andreas De Neve on Revenue-Linked Skills Strategy.

Recorded at Workday Rising, TechWolf CEO Andreas De Neve sits down with Workday's Josh Tarr to trace their skills journey, from fewer than 20% of jobs having skills to a 91% acceptance rate on AI-suggested skills. A specific, numbers-first look at skills-based hiring, profile decay, and the shift to AI-driven workforce planning.

listen now

Episode 27

Mar 23, 2026

hour 35 min

"Skills are just a lazy proxy for work." | A debate with FM’s Mike Manning & Preethi Gowda

FM's Preethi Gowda and Michael Manning on why skills data only matters when it reaches the decision board, not the dashboard. A practical, contrarian take on making workforce data drive revenue, cost and capital decisions.

listen now

Episode 28

Apr 14, 2026

hour 53 min

"There would actually be a people shortage" | McKinsey’s Sven Smit & Anu Madgavkar on AI, Agents, Robots, and the $100-Trillion Economy.

McKinsey Global Institute partners Sven Smit and Anu Madgavkar break down the "Agents, Robots and Us" report, revealing why the future of work is a hybrid race for "Shared Skills."

listen now

Episode 26

Mar 9, 2026

hour 30 min

"Stop pushing skills validation on everyone." | Why ServiceNow uses 'pull' talent strategies to find critical engineers.

Josh Newman (ServiceNow) explains why skills data is useless without a task lens and how to build a "Talent Signature" to predict workforce readiness. Learn how to transition from "Pushing" skills validation to a "Pull" strategy that employees actually value.

listen now

Episode 25

Feb 24, 2026

hour 40 min

"Stop benchmarking your peers..." | Lessons from a CHRO & People Analytics duo (xABN Amro) on data-driven workforce strategy

HR is stuck in an efficiency trap. Frank and Patrick reveal how to break free by focusing on the "human quotient" and evidence-based workforce architecture.

listen now

Episode 24

Feb 10, 2026

hour 40 min

“The 'All-Access Pass' to CEO Strategy.” | Experienced F500 CHRO, Jordana Kammerud, on the New Boardroom Mandate

Jordana Kammerud and Mik Wornoo break down the "Oppenheimer moment" of HR, revealing how to lead through exponential AI growth. Learn the Three Horizons framework for transforming skills data into board-level business value.

listen now

Episode 23

Feb 2, 2026

hour 12 min

“AI goals are now mandatory.” | How Genesys hit 75% skill adoption in 60 Days with Lisa Brockman (Part 2)

Genesys hit 75% skill adoption in 60 days. Lisa Brockman explains the playbook for mandatory AI goals and why manual mapping is officially dead.

listen now

Episode 22

Jan 20, 2026

hour 12 min

“People don’t care about skills...” | Genesys’ Talent Director on the Internal-First Mobility Playbook

Stop building spreadsheets and start building a strategy. Lisa Brockman shares how Genesys abandoned manual skill mapping for an AI-driven approach that actually scales.

listen now

Episode 21

Jan 12, 2026

hour 24 min

"Your business case isn't big enough." | SAP SuccessFactors' CRO on the revenue-first skills strategy

SAP SuccessFactors' Jan Duthoo explains why most skills strategies fail due to weak business cases and a narrow focus on efficiency. Discover how to link skills data directly to revenue and business outcomes.

listen now

Episode 20

Jan 5, 2026

hour 20 min

“Skills tech is useless without this” | Advent Health’s culture-first playbook for skills transformation

Why Advent Health spent two years on culture before touching their skills technology.

listen now

Episode 19

Dec 3, 2025

hour 34 min

"If We Do Nothing, We Lose." | HSBC’s Blueprint for Future Competitive Advantage

Stop tracking 4,000 skills. Rob Etheridge (HSBC) reveals why simplicity, data veracity, and a strategic "Blueprint" are the only ways to secure future competitive advantage and why you definitely don't need another employee portal.

listen now

Episode 18

Nov 25, 2025

hour 20 min

“AI Could Turn White-Collar Work Into the New Assembly Line.” | Former IBM CHRO Diane Gherson on the Future of HR (LIVE from Workday Rising)

Former IBM CHRO Diane Gherson joins the TechWolf Podcast live from Workday Rising to warn HR leaders that AI may be pushing white-collar work toward a new “assembly line.” She reflects on IBM’s skills-based transformation, the power of AI-inferred skills, and why HR must redesign work before AI standardizes it. Diane also breaks down the collapse in entry-level roles, the rise of AI-servicing jobs, and what boards now expect when it comes to workforce intelligence.

listen now

Episode 17

Oct 23, 2025

hour 29 min

"Skills-based hiring isn't broken. Your interviews are." | The Business Case for Skills-Based Hiring at Workday with Marianne Herrmann

Workday’s Marianne Herrmann joins the TechWolf Podcast to share how her team is building a truly skills-based organization where hiring, performance, and workforce planning all revolve around skills, not titles. Recorded live at Workday Rising in San Francisco, this episode dives into how Workday combined AI from TechWolf with leader validation to identify job-critical skills, redesigned hiring to focus on outcomes, and achieved measurable business impact: faster hiring, higher offer acceptance, and stronger performance. Marianne also looks ahead to the future of workforce intelligence, where AI and human skills co-create the next evolution of work.

listen now

Episode 16

Sep 29, 2025

hour 37 min

Special Episode | “The Skeleton of the Skills-Based Org” | A Deep Dive on Job Architecture with Richard Hanson (WTW)

Richard Hanson, Global Head of Digital Strategy & Innovation at Willis Towers Watson, explains why job architecture remains the anchor of modern workforce design. Once focused on compensation, architectures today drive mobility, pay transparency, and skills-based transformation. He shares how to link them to concrete use cases, make the business case to CFOs, and keep them relevant as AI reshapes jobs and skills.

listen now

Episode 15

Sep 12, 2025

hour 21 min

"HR Problems Became Business Problems. For the first time" | TechWolf Founder & President Mikael Wornoo on Task Data, Workforce Planning & the New HR Mandate

TechWolf co-founder Mikael Wornoo discusses how AI is transforming work at the job, skill, and task level — and why workforce intelligence is key to navigating that change. From the market’s evolution post-COVID to today’s AI disruption, Mik explains how HR and business leaders must work together, the risks of waiting too long, and how pilots reduce uncertainty. He also introduces TechWolf’s upcoming Workforce Intelligence Index, offering concrete data on how AI is reshaping jobs and skills across industries.

listen now

Episode 14

Sep 11, 2025

hour 21 min

“Excel Didn’t Help in a Crisis” | How the Belgian Government Built a National Skills System from Scratch

The Belgian government is pioneering a skills-informed approach to workforce transformation. In this episode, Carolien Sonck, Director of Support Services, explains how her team uses AI-powered skills data to improve internal mobility, respond faster to crises, and build employee trust through transparent communication. With early wins already showing impact, the vision is to scale skills profiles across 60,000 civil servants — reshaping how the public sector plans and deploys its talent.

listen now

Episode 13

Jul 30, 2025

hour 32 min

“We Built Competency Models. They Weren’t Enough.” | Sanofi’s Guillaume Lavoix on Building a Workforce for the AI-Driven Pharma Era

Sanofi’s Guillaume Lavoix shares how the “Skills Power” program embeds skills at the heart of the company’s AI-driven, R&D-focused transformation. By building a global taxonomy, launching employee-first pilots, and securing executive sponsorship, Sanofi uses precise skills data to guide automation, reskilling, and workforce readiness for the future.

listen now

Episode 11

Jun 22, 2025

1 hour 3 min

Why Skills-Based HR Is Still Stuck | Harvard Prof. Joseph Fuller on Cracking the People-Productivity Code

Joseph Fuller, Harvard Business School professor and co-lead of Managing the Future of Work, explains how AI is transforming HR. He shares why skills-based organizations are still more aspiration than reality, why HR must shed its risk-averse stance, and how CHROs can seize this moment to become true strategic partners.

listen now

Episode 12

Jun 30, 2025

hour 22 min

Under the hood of Atlas Copco Group’s skills journey: real-world lessons from the HR frontlines

How Atlas Copco Group is transforming talent acquisition, internal mobility, and learning through skills. In this episode, CHRO Cecilia Sandberg and VP Talent Dorna Shafiei share their journey with TechWolf: from pain points to a skills-based strategy grounded in business outcomes.

listen now

Episode 10

Jun 17, 2025

hour 33 min

"We Needed More Skilled Talent to Save Lives" | How Bristol Myers Squibb Used Skills Data to Solve a Life-or-Death Talent Shortage

Ben Wein and Julius explore how a life-or-death talent shortage pushed Bristol Myers Squibb to embrace skills data: starting from zero, piloting with talent acquisition and mobility, and scaling toward a skills-based organization.

listen now

Episode 9

Jun 10, 2025

1 hour 4 min

You can’t nail skills without tasks | Marc Ramos & Jeroen Van Hautte (TechWolf) on redefining work with task intelligence

Marc Ramos and Jeroen Van Hautte unpack how task intelligence is reshaping skills strategy: why tasks offer clearer insights than skills, how AI captures them, and what it means for workforce planning.

listen now

Episode 8

May 26, 2025

hour 42 min

You don’t have a skills problem—You have a data opportunity"| Kason Morris from Merck

Kason Morris shares how Merck is building a skills-informed workforce: why mindset beats tools, how to get good skills data, and what it takes to scale transformation across the business.

listen now

Episode 6

Apr 1, 2025

hour 42 min

Why Skills Still Feel Theoretical And How CCEP Is Making It Real | Nico Orie

In this episode of The TechWolf Podcast, Nico Orie, VP of People and Culture at Coca-Cola Europacific Partners (CCEP), shares why technology investments often fail without equal focus on people.

listen now

Episode 5

Apr 6, 2025

hour 40 min

Fixing skills data with AI | Robert Gibby

In this episode, Robert Gibby, current Data Science Director at Cox Enterprises, former Director of People Analytics at Meta, and Chief Talent Scientist at IBM, shares his experience designing AI-powered skills intelligence for workforce planning, talent mobility, and hiring.

listen now

Episode 4

Feb 13, 2025

hour 50 min

DHL's Talent Tinder & The Future of Skills: How they built a winning strategy with Meredith Wellard

In this episode of Skills Talks, Meredith Wellard, former VP of Talent Acquisition, Learning, and Growth at DHL, shares her experience in building a skills-based organization at scale. She discusses why skills matter now more than ever, how AI and automation have made skills strategies more feasible, and the practical challenges of implementing a talent marketplace in a 600,000-employee organization.

listen now

Episode 3

Jan 7, 2025

hour 49 min

Inside a True, Skills-Based Organization

In this live episode of Skills Talks, Sandra Loughlin, Chief Learning Scientist at EPAM Systems, joins us from the HR Tech Conference to expose the biggest flaws in the skills technology market and how EPAM has built a true skills-based organization over 30 years.

listen now

Episode 2

Oct 25, 2024

hour 43 min

Building a 'Coalition of Belief' for Skills

In this episode of, Gina Jeneroux, former Chief Learning Officer at BMO Financial Group and now Chief Skills & Innovation Officer at Executive Networks, shares how she helped drive a skills-first transformation inside a major financial institution.

listen now

Episode 1

Oct 14, 2024

hour 58 min

Josh Tarr - Workday's Skills-Based Organization: When Hype Meets Reality

In this episode of Skills Talks, Josh Tarr, Director of the Skills-Based Organization at Workday, shares how the company successfully implemented a skills-based transformation—not just for its customers, but internally for its 18,000 employees.

listen now